You know, some of these could have been fighting poses and you would have gotten practice. Why should female anatomy practice just be a bunch of poses that look like the women depicted are about to have sex with someone? Side kicks and punches use perspective better than an on-all-fours pose.
It doesn't make me sick, but I'm tired of seeing it. If the artist is willing to do action poses when she draws Minnie in her fan comics, than she should be willing to do the same for normal human women.
Jungleland-girlFeatured By OwnerJan 13, 2013Student Traditional Artist
This is great anatomy-wise, but honestly, it's pretty sexist. "Feminine anatomy"? I find it interesting that basically all of these poses are at least slightly sexual, where-as in the "Masculine Anatomy" there are almost none that are sexual. It may not even be your fault... unfortunately, our society has made this something that people hardly ever notice...
Not to bash your art, it's really good, but the feminist in me had to say something.
Wasn't really supporting, just stating my opinion, which kinda built off yours. I prefer to take neutral stances on most conflicts, as I can usually see both sides to the argument, and only speak up when I feel like it
sex is interesting, it catches your attention and well, poses like these aren't that bad to look at if you like what you see :d it's fun acting sexy/flirty and that seems to be reflected in these sketches. not everybody wants art to be realistic (few does actually), just as not every single one who flirts want to go all the way.
Jungleland-girlFeatured By OwnerJan 13, 2013Student Traditional Artist
I agree! Sex/sexy poses can be interesting and fun. I was merely pointing out that this "Feminine Anatomy" study has far more sexual poses than the "Masculine Anatomy" one. If they were basically all sexual for the male study, I wouldn't have left any comment; I would have just left it as it is and moved on. Unfortunately that wasn't the case so I felt the need to point it out.
I'm quite glad it's starting some discussion... this way others may realize the sexism inlaid in these pieces. Again, I'm not trying to make the artist feel bad, I'm simply here for a discussion.
Perhaps, the problem is that "flirty woman" is culturally more accessible than "heroic, determined woman" or "flirty man." The figures in the sketch don't have fun, they don't "like" looking one way or another. They have no agency one way or another.
There's nothing wrong with "flirty" poses. But there is something wrong with associating "sexy" with "feminine."
I disagree. art is supposed to deliver a message or a feeling and the feeling this gives off is playfully flirty. some more erotic than others perhaps. maybe she's practising anatomy with these poses because she has some kind of project that involves them or maybe she just just enjoys sketching this.
and I don't think there's anything wrong with associating sexy with feminine, though this hardly is about being feminine but rather a sexy/flirty female.
if you want to discuss it further then I'd like to share my thoughts on something; there are two kinds of people (well there's plenty of types but for this example let's say there's only two). one is the social type, the kind of person who does anything and everything to fit in and be accepted by others, doesn't matter who it is just aslong as it's someone. if the people they hang around with or associate with have an opinion on something, that person will soak it in like a spunge in order to not get kicked out of the group, they want to fit in. the second type is the one who don't want others opinions forced onto them, and believes they can figure out stuff themselves. says they are a person of the world rather than one specific group. unfortunately this train of thought often makes the person think he/she is better than the rest.
the first type would be the majority of the population, the society. the second are the socalled weirdos and loners. what I want to say with this is that the first kind you Won't be able to change unless you get the whole world to change over a night, which will get reset once a new generation appears again (no point). so the leaves the weirdos. that's the people who don't rely on others opinions and the only ones you can get a proper discussion with. they are people who can change their idéals after being explained to if they see it fair/right or whatever. telling the world that they are wrong about associating "sexy" with "feminine" is futile. and I who consider myself as the second type, disagree aswell unless you want to explain to me why it is "wrong". as is I think any of the sexes can be considered sexy. and flirting is a fun way to communicate^^ it don't necessarily have to lead to sex so yeah, flirt on.
Your point breaks down in this: art that validates women exclusively in their sexuality is not the fringe, it is the mainstream. More often than not, when women are featured in art they are drawn as sexual objects, valued for their parts alone. A cursory glance of the DA front page confirms this. Make a list of super heroines who aren't busty and skinny. Now make a list of those that are. Odds are one of those is DRASTICALLY longer than the other one. The image above doesn't fight the mainstream, it wholeheartedly supports it.
So when you reference "[people who] don't want the opinions of others forced onto them," aren't those the people who are drawing women in ways that don't value women only as sexual objects?
Having a sex positive philosophy doesn't mean one has to support a sexist homogeny. If people want to flirt, or be sexy, right on. More power to you. However, the figures above don't want that. They don't want anything. They have no agency. When people defend cheesecake in pop culture by saying "the character would want that," it's a ridiculous arguement because the character doesn't want that. You designed the character, you want that.
Lets fight the power. Lets cast off the status quo. Lets draw fat women. Lets draw intelligent or strong (physically, mentally, or emotionally) women. Women that are more than the sum of their fluid-producing parts. Not because it is odd to do so, but because it should be normal.
my point was that it Can't be normal, it Can't become mainstream for the same reason that the perfect idéal communist society in theory, will not work in real life no matter how good it sounds. because the majority of the people listens to the ones who screams the highest and seems the most confident about it. and there will Always be someone thinking you are wrong.
mainstream are determined by the information the majority gets their hands on, and we get our information from the media and the media are controlled by the people who scream the highest.
chaos(democracy) is the -most- fair and balanced system we have. aslong as we are ruled by a majority, this is what we get.
by standing up for your believes you will attract likeminded individuals, but you won't change the mainstream. I say cut your losses and be content with those few people instead^^ you'll find some awesome personalities doing so
I think that to try and change sexism is the wrong way to go about. with 'wrong' I mean it's inefficient and most likely impossible.
and no I didn't mean to say 'enjoy sexism' but rather that anything is fine aslong as it's not hurting anyone. flirting is fine aslong as there are no expectations for more. Im not encouraging people to go fondle a waitress at a cafe and expect Not to get thrown out, but that people often get offended by minor stuff that means absolutely nothing or even was a missunderstanding.
I know a guy who back in school got his hands on a strapon and put it on ontop of his clothes, and pulled it up so he could hide it under his jacket and then flash unexpected people (friends, of both genders) for fun. which most people found hilarious except for this one teacher who saw what was going on, got upset and reported him to the police for sexual harrassment.
I think stuff like this no matter how silly it is makes your everyday more fun, aslong as people don't take it too personal (he didn't go after a particular person).
these sketches aren't hurting anyone. instead of yelling sexism perhaps you should encourage people to become stronger and more comfortable with themselves so they don't get offended by stuff that don't matter, and that in turn might teach them to differ joke from assault so they can stand up to people who go too far.